WIP - BMW 700RS

Zexer wrote:

If for "fuel light" you mean the led which starts bleeping when you're running low on fuel, the material name should be "ledlf".

If that's set and it still doesn't work, check that the event is set to 0,1, that _00.tga texture is black (?)/transparent and _01.tga is the "glow" effect.

If you're going for historical accuracy and it's still too fast/slow, then it's up to you. Make it different, but unrealistic or keep it real, but faster/slower? I'd go with realistic myself.

For the camera, it's somewhere in the .cam file, swingcam, tvcam, or something like that.

Will you make a version with the roof to replicate that Nurburgring '64 car?

Used this Material. Used Default AC Cobra Mesh/Material and Texture and it dosent work. Must be something in the Car Structure (.car-File or so)

Physics Based on the Abarth 1000TC used this from Nogrip to Modify:
http://www.nogripracing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=350832&highlight=BodyDragBase

I dont want to modify the Cam. The Car must look right on the Default Cam.

It is not so easy. The Coachwork and many Attachments are completly new. But it would be nice to have it in GTL.

Thank you for your Reply

Greetings
Muddy

BTW: This is the short Version because i post this reply the third time. EvoMod killed it when i want to look a Preview. (Says Timed out or something like that)

GeeDee wrote:

If the tyres have too much grip you will gain a lot of time on every corner including any braking or accelerating.

Hello Gee

The Physics based on the Abarth 1000TC

I used this from Nogrip:
http://www.nogripracing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=350832&highlight=BodyDragBase

BodyDragBase is between 0.25 and0.3
FrictionTorque is 5.5 front and 6.5 rear

The Tank Position must be adjusted
Its now:
name=fuel_tank mass=(2.0) inertia=(0.02,0.18,0.18)
pos=(0, 0,5, 0,1) ori=(0.0,0.0,0.0)
[.sp-File]

I think the Abarth Tank is in the rear. The 700RS Tank is in the Front. Do you know what i have to do to adjust it.

Thank you for you Reply

Greetings
Muddy

The CG should be moved up a little also, the engine was in "front" of the axle......

I would start in TC65, unless it is overbearing, than maybe a little power for GTC65?

Have you done anything concerning weight and performance? If the wheels are of a comparable size and timeframe, and the donator acts believable, meaning it has no monster grip, then that's not the culprit. Shouldn't be the case, if it was an original, unmodded GTL car. One has to remember, the car is extremely light, if I remember that right, so its 'normal' it is fast on curvy tracks, but loses out on fast tracks. If you got some solid numbers on performance and torque and don't know how to change the engine performance, or something else physics related, don't hesitate to shoot me a PM.

Muddie7272 wrote:

The Tank Position must be adjusted
Its now:
name=fuel_tank mass=(2.0) inertia=(0.02,0.18,0.18)
pos=(0, 0,5, 0,1) ori=(0.0,0.0,0.0)
[.sp-File]

I think the Abarth Tank is in the rear. The 700RS Tank is in the Front. Do you know what i have to do to adjust it.

Thank you for you Reply

Greetings
Muddy

The fuel tank position is written down in the .HDC file, not in the .SP file.
Look for the line 'FuelTankPos=( X , Y , Z )', among the first positions in the file. This is the position of the tank relative to the rear axle. The interesting value is the third, Z-axis, so if you want to move it forward, increase the number, but remember these numbers have to be negative, as +Z is to the rear in the ISI/Simbim universe.

Thank you Guys for your replys

Dear joeschmoe:
What do you Mean with the "CG" is it the CGHeight. Its the Same as the Default 906 0.20 and i think its OK. With a higher CGHeight the Car flipped out at this brisant Edge on Magny Cours Club (Now it flips only sometimes)

Dear 0fflabeluse
Thank you for your Information. I looked in the HDC-File and the Value is -1.850 sounds like the Tank is in the Front right now. My question:
Is the Tank on the Abarth 100TC in the Front or must i put this Value to -3.000 or so?

Greetings
Muddie

If the value is 0, its right above the rear axle. Anything smaller than 0 means, the tank moves forward. That means, the tank of the Abarth is 1850 mm ahead of the rear axle, if the 2000 mm I just googled for the car are correct, its a little behind the front axle. What's the wheelbase of your car, and where should the tank be?

Hey 0fflabeluse

Thats the right information. Is there everything hold in mm from rear axle? Would make the Work much easier.
Thankyou very much.

Greetings
Muddie

Are you refering specifically to the fuel tank or dimensions in general? Fuel tank yes, other dimensions, except for the rear wing, not.

I use mm, because i'm used to use mm in that context, but in the ISI/SimBim world, dimensions are given in metres. Generally all units are SI/metric units. Decimals are separated by a period, not a comma, just to avoid confusion

Hey 0fflabeluse

Ahhh! Learn Somthing more. The second Part of your Reply describes Things i know, but it is always good to be as detailed as possible. You dont no much about the Skills from the Guy you want to help. E.g something like the Period-Komma-Issue can make you worry for hours if you are working on something you have no experience.

I put the Value to -2.100 Wheelbase 2 Metres and the Fuel knob is a little bit further ahead.

At next i will work on the Undertray lines. Same scheme but offset from the Car Center. (Tell me if im wrong)

Great Slip (to you and everybody else)
Muddie

BTW: Do you have any experience with the Fuel light Material. I really really want it in my Mod.

From the picture I found that shows it with open front lid, the fuel tank seems to be right above the front axle.

You mean the 'Undertray00=' to 'Undertray07=' lines? From the top of my head yes.

3D/Material, I'll have to look, difficult to say from a distance.

Hi Muddie, I meant move the cg forward, not up. If you are using abarth physics, that motor was forward and I believe a bit lower than the Abarth physics are set......

Hey 0fflabeluse

Its great that you get in discussion with me about my Project and its hard for me to contradict you, but i found this in the Web (BTW a great Gallery about the restoration of #1 700RS)
https://s897.photobucket.com/user/bergspyder1961/media/BMW%20700RS/DSC00736.jpg.html?sort=3&o=1
you can see the steering axle right behind the Fuel Tank. I think -2.100 is quite to low. I think i must decreaso to -2.300 or so. What do you mean?

Hello joeschmoe

I found this Values in the HDC:

CGRightRange=(0.500, 0.005, 1)  // fraction of weight on right tires
CGRightSetting=0
CGRearRange=(0.55, 0.000, 1)
CGRearSetting=0

I think with this values you fix the CG in the xy-Axis. Thats all i understand. The scheme of values looks like the Values you can handle in the Garage before Race or Practice. But that make no sence to me. Could you be so kind and give me a little tutorial. Only a few sets. e.G the first value is percent is it 55 Percent to the rear range or away from it? Is the rear range the rear axle or the rear end? What are the other two Values?

Would be great to hear somthing more from you Guys.

Greetings
Muddie

Just looked it up, 2000 mm wheelbase, right? And the steering box right behind the tank, so it'll be a little bit ahead of the front axle. A tape measure would be great, to give us an idea how big that thing actually is. My take is, it'll fall somewhere inbetween 2100 mm and 2300 mm, though you could be right it'll be more towards 2300 mm. We're talking about the center of gravity of the tank here.

The car itself has a mid/rear engine configuration (the engine is in the middle of the car, but behind the driver), so 55% of the weight to the rear reasonable. But as the car has no roof and uses a flat engine, so the center of gravity should come down a bit. But you need to look one line above: 'CGHeight=xxx'

CGRight... and CGRear... can be made adjustable if desired. The values in the 'Range'- bracket read like: Starting Point - size of increments - number of increments. In case of the CGRightRange, you start with 50% of the weight to the right side of the, each increment shifts 0.5% more weight to the right, and it has one increment. So the weight distribution to the right can vary between 50,0% and 50,0% + 0,5% * 1 = 50,5%. Not the best example to show how the arguments work.
Same for CGRearRange, but the size of the increment is 0, so it won't do anything (but I seem to recall, the game engine does not always appreciate no increments).

Hey 0fflabeluse

You are damn fast!

About CG and Fuel:

FuelTankPos=(0.0, 0.160, -2.300)
...
CGRightRange=(0.500, 0.005, 1)
CGRightSetting=0
CGRearRange=(0.52, 0.000, 1)
CGRearSetting=0

The CGheight is 0.16 or 0.20

There is something in the .sp-File i dont understand. I found a Program which is called SuspEdit2 I put my files in the Program and i wonder: The Tank position is not as i expected. The reason is the Position of the wheels. Look here:

[BODY]
name=fr_wheel mass=(18.0) inertia=(1.292,0.800,0.800)
pos=(-0.56,0.0,-1.65) ori=(0.0,0.0,0.0)

[BODY]
name=rl_wheel mass=(19.0) inertia=(1.500,0.920,0.920)
pos=(0.56,0.0,1.35) ori=(0.0,0.0,0.0)

The Distance is 3000 mm but the Wheelbase is 2000 mm

About Undertray:

Here i took the Values of the Def 906 and calculate it down to the Size of the BMW:
Thats the result :

Undertray00=(0.65,  -0.00, -1.595)  
Undertray01=(-0.65, -0.00, -1.595)
Undertray02=(0.65,  -0.00, 0.900)  
Undertray03=(-0.65, -0.00, 0.900)
Undertray04=(0.305,  -0.00, -1.685)  
Undertray05=(-0.305, -0.00, -1.685)
Undertray06=(0.65,  -0.00, 0.000)  
Undertray07=(-0.65, -0.00, 0.000)
Undertray08=(0.305,  -0.00, -0.675)
Undertray09=(-0.305, -0.00, -0.675)
Undertray10=(0.305,  -0.00, 0.675)  
Undertray11=(-0.305, -0.00, 0.675)
UndertrayParams=(262500.0,11600.0, 3.0)

I also put some Aero Files in my HDC:

BodyLeft=(-0.5, 0.0, 0.0)      
BodyRight=(0.5, 0.0, 0.0)      
BodyUp=(0.0, -0.75, 0.0)        
BodyDown=(0.0, 0.75, 0.0)      
BodyAft=(0.0, 0.4, -0.2)    
BodyFore=(0.0, -0.200, 0.000)  
BodyRot=(5.23, 4.9, 3.00)        
BodyCenter=(0.0, 0.50, -1.200)

I dont know exactly what it is but i think the Undertray and this Values are near together in function.

What dou you think and what do you know about the strange Wheel position in the .sp-File? (It seems that all the .sp-Files of the Default Cars has exact this Values on the z-Axis)

Greetings
Muddie

About the wheel positions in the SP-files, they are two things, one I suspect, the other I know for sure.

It seems, the game engine corrects the wheel base/track width/suspension pickup locations according the the location of the wheel position of the 3D model. So if the positions of your 3D wheels are correct, the rest will be put in the right place

For sure I know, if you specify the exact wheelbase and track withs in the HDC file, the game engine will use exactly these values as base and corrects the rest according to them. Look for the lines:
FrontWheelTrack=x
RearWheelTrack=x
LeftWheelBase=x
RightWheelBase=x

if the value is 0, it does nothing. Left and right different wheelbases may seem odd at first, but some designs actually have that. Renault 16 with its rear torsion bar suspension comes to mind, or some american stuff where you just turn left.

I seem to recall the rF Lotus 23 did have its wheels in the 0/0/0 location and had them corrected via the physics files. Personally, I prefer to have the stuff in the SP-file in in sync with the actual 3d position

As far as I understand it, the undertray stuff becomes important, if the car bottoms out and the floor somehow hits the ground. 'UndertrayParams' defines spring rate, damping rate and coefficient of friction, in case the car bottoms out and scratches over the ground. Could happen in places like Eau Rouge in Spa, but as this is no high-downforce car, you are little likely to bottom out. Given the rules required 120 mm ground clearance back then, I'm not sure the car has even that much suspension travel.
'Undertray00' to 'Undertray11' define the extend of the floor relative to the wheels, relative the the axles. usually, the height values (y) are zero, this is corrected over the ride height you're actually running. Which one of the 00 to 11 is which position, best you check that out in SuspEdit.

All that aero stuff is unrelated to the undertray parameters.

About the center of gravity, what does the 'CGHeight=y' entry, that comes after the 'CGRearSetting' line say? The second value of the 'FuelTankPos' line is the height of the fuel tank relative to the rear axle.

Hy 0fflabeluse!

Thank you for the substitution.

Can it be, that the Undertray Values have also a little bit Influence on the Airstream behavior under the Car. Im not sure, but the Car seems a litte bit Faster after i changed the Values. BTW i think ive done what i can with the Physics. Its difficult to find a good Tutorial for this. There are only Pieces of information in different Threats on different Forums. Often hard to find.

Greetings
Muddie