[WIP/Request] Historic Updates

Hey all, longtime lurker/sometime contributor, looking to occupy his additional free time with some GTR2/P&G-centered projects. Going to use this topic to announce a sort of overarching plan that, fingers crossed, will be a long-term bit of futureproofing and racing history/modding preservation.

I'm still in the (very) early planning stages with this, but in the long run, what I hope to do is create a series of consolidated, P&G-optimized updates of currently existing mods, primarily classic racing cars. Just as an example, I'm looking at starting with a slate of 1950s GT-class cars like the AC Ace Bristol, Triumph TR3, Ferrari 250 GT California, Mercedes-Benz 300SL Gullwing, and so on, and updating them to fit in both visually and physics-wise with the Power & Glory mod.

Here's what this would involve:

-visually adjusting models to be in keeping with historical appearance and spec, i.e. removing Motec/LCD dash timers, using original speedo/tach dial designs, etc.

-collecting all currently-existing real-world historical skins done by others (with credits given, of course), focusing primarily on period-era WSC, Le Mans, SCCA, BTCC, ETCC, and other series, as well as adding some updated and/or newly-created historical skins of my own

-adjusting engines, tires, transmission, and general physics to be as close as possible to real-world specifications

-improving visual quality and accuracy of 3D models, if necessary

I know this seems like a pretty major undertaking, but I've started to get the hang of at least the first couple steps and I'm learning as I go, with the first car likely to be ready for exhibition and community input in the next few days. Is anyone else interested in a project like this? It'd be a massive help to have an additional contributor or two to this, even if it's only to test things out or give me a pointer or two if I need to figure out how to do something in 3DSimED.

Thanks!

It does indeed sound like a massive undertaking and I wish you the very best in your pursuit of correctness.

@stupornaut

Hi, I would be very interested in this project. Also I could help a little bit with light 3D work.

If you are interested, just let me know.

OK! Here we go with the first entry in the series: the AC Ace, the Cobra's tame(r) big brother, as originally created by DonPanoz.



I've also included a text file with all the info on this WIP, but so far here's what's up:

========
v0.5 - 4/11/2020
========

This version is based off the DonPanoz original mod for GTL/GTR2 and (temporarily) contains some modified physics by fatguts

DONE:

-several skins from historical Le Mans and 12 Hours of Sebring races, including some new ones (57035, 60077), some modified/updated with more accurate number fonts (57036, 58039, 60035), some addons (58027), and ones that came with the original mod (56037). I may not have full info on every skin creator, so if you've got any further info please fill me in.

-early efforts to make car appearance period-correct, including removal of LCD/Motec from cockpit view. (There may be remnants of the LCD in exterior car view?)

-Power & Glory-style expo floor

TO DO:

-add illuminated dials for night / headlights-on racing

-correct/updated physics -- not sure what the correct specs are but 150 HP / 206 nm torque seems a bit high compared to official factory spec (105 HP / 142 nm)

-add additional skins where possible; not many color photos exist of race-spec Aces but there should be at least a few additional ones in the ranks of SCCA and other smaller/regional races up to the early '60s

-possible model updating/smoothing? It looks acceptable enough but some sharp-edged polys stand out, especially in the front/around the grille

-if remodeling portions of the body is possible, maybe create the '57 Le Mans Ace (#31, chassis AE 205) with the one-off rounded front end / grille and hood scoop?

-check/verify engine sounds (included in archive) and figure out if there are alternate ones needed; the ones I included that came from the mod seem to be identical to the GTR2 Gillet Vertigo, which is a 3-liter V6 as opposed to the Bristol's 2-liter straight 6

-finalize/update/proofread team, driver, and pitgroup descriptions in .car files

NOTES:

"SIM_000_TEST.gdb" file is included to add these cars to your game; look under "Test Cars"

And here's the download link:

https://www.mediafire.com/file/zji30yyukv0rno0/acace-historic.zip/file

FYI, aside from creating skins and some very simple 3DSimED stuff, I still need to learn how to do many of these things (especially physics-related), so hints and tips and info on what apps to use are much appreciated. Thanks!

Thank you!

Looking good !

Quite interesting - wasn't aware about the two 2 liter engines used for this car.

Here is the homologation form for the 1963 Bristol engined car:

https://historicdb.fia.com/cars/list/field_make/ac-335

but without details about performance.

Google told me something about 125hp for the stock version - so possibly 150hp for the race
version could be realistic (translation from the German wikipedia article: "From now on, AC customers could alternatively use the Bristol engine with the 105 bhp / 106 PS / 78 kW at 5000 / min or the Bristol engine with 128 bhp / 130 PS / 95 kW at 5750 / order min. [20] This could easily be increased to 130 to 150 HP for competitions.")

More pictures of racing AC ACE's and Bristol'S can be found here:

https://www.racingsportscars.com/type/photo/AC/Ace.html

also an information about an AC Corvace, an AC Ace with an implemented Corvette V8
engine and another Jaguar powered AC ACE, which both ran at the SCCA National Virginia (VIR) 1957:

http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/originality-forum/94884-corvace-photos.html

Whoa, good catch -- I'm a long-time user of Racing Sports Cars but enthusiast messageboards are a great resource, too. The "Corvace" seems like a pretty wild possibility, up there with the Austin-Healey 100 V8 (which you did a great job on!).

I suppose the easiest way to ballpark whether the car's performance figures are correct would be to give it a few laps around a circuit and compare it to real-world lap times, though those seem kind of hard to come by in this case -- either qualifying/lap times aren't recorded, or they exist mostly for versions and layouts of tracks that haven't been modded.

I think as far as updating this particular mod goes, finding more accurate sounds for the kind of engine the Ace has is probably the biggest thing, and probably not the most difficult, either. It seems like a pretty conventional-sounding motor from where I sit.



Other than that, getting some additional skins in and adding light-up interior dials should do it. (No idea how to swing that last bit, though.)

Here you can find more data/specifications about the stock version of the ACE Bristol:

https://www.automobile-catalog.com/car/1957/212345/ac_ace_bristol.html

https://www.automobile-catalog.com/

FYI: I reconverted your car to GTL (as I mostly play GTL and only very seldom P&G/GTR2) and added the original tyres from DonPanoz' mod as these look more realistic in contemporary aspects.
For me the car seems a bit slow as it looks like you used the transmission of the AC ACE260 which is a bit too
long for the less powered engine of the ACE Bristol.
In fact I'm looking for an alternative transmission for the ACE Bristol and think about trying to rebuilt the one
mentioned in above link. No idea if it works and I'm not at all experienced in these things but I love playing
around and there are some tools to do so.

Sounds like a plan! Meanwhile, I'm going to see if I can work on another few skins over the next couple days.

Also, does anyone know how to create and add illuminated dials to the cockpit that switch on with the headlights? It's probably a small touch in the scheme of things but it'd be good to have.

stupornaut wrote:

This version is based off the DonPanoz original mod for GTL/GTR2 and (temporarily) contains some modified physics by fatguts

DONE:

-several skins from historical Le Mans and 12 Hours of Sebring races, including some new ones (57035, 60077), some modified/updated with more accurate number fonts (57036, 58039, 60035), some addons (58027), and ones that came with the original mod (56037). I may not have full info on every skin creator, so if you've got any further info please fill me in.

-early efforts to make car appearance period-correct, including removal of LCD/Motec from cockpit view. (There may be remnants of the LCD in exterior car view?)

-Power & Glory-style expo floor

TO DO:

-add illuminated dials for night / headlights-on racing

-correct/updated physics -- not sure what the correct specs are but 150 HP / 206 nm torque seems a bit high compared to official factory spec (105 HP / 142 nm)

-add additional skins where possible; not many color photos exist of race-spec Aces but there should be at least a few additional ones in the ranks of SCCA and other smaller/regional races up to the early '60s

-possible model updating/smoothing? It looks acceptable enough but some sharp-edged polys stand out, especially in the front/around the grille

-if remodeling portions of the body is possible, maybe create the '57 Le Mans Ace (#31, chassis AE 205) with the one-off rounded front end / grille and hood scoop?

-check/verify engine sounds (included in archive) and figure out if there are alternate ones needed; the ones I included that came from the mod seem to be identical to the GTR2 Gillet Vertigo, which is a 3-liter V6 as opposed to the Bristol's 2-liter straight 6

-finalize/update/proofread team, driver, and pitgroup descriptions in .car files

NOTES:

"SIM_000_TEST.gdb" file is included to add these cars to your game; look under "Test Cars"

And here's the download link:

https://www.mediafire.com/file/zji30yyukv0rno0/acace-historic.zip/file

FYI, aside from creating skins and some very simple 3DSimED stuff, I still need to learn how to do many of these things (especially physics-related), so hints and tips and info on what apps to use are much appreciated. Thanks!

First of all, many thanks for all your efforts so far, an impressive project.
But I would like to give some (constructive) comments about your AC Ace release here:
1. Engine file: I have done quite some online research and found that a well tuned racing engine offered around 150 bhp/206 Nm. That was the base of the engine file I built and included in the skins release posted here. So I think that this engine output could be considered as period correct. I see that you included this file in your release too, a bit of credits to me would have been nice...
2. The 1957 #35 car did have this white stripe and front as I painted and included in the above mentioned release.

Good luck and I'm looking forward to next releases.
BTW, you can use all my skins and files I posted here but pls give credits

If it can be of any help, this was one of my many (too many) unreleased projects. It's the complete history of this car in the WSC, 33 cars in total. I don't remember all the details, but I do recall having colored photos of most of these cars. Black and white pictures were "colored" based on additional researches into other archives, books and registers from the factory as well as from enthusiasts, so as far as I'm aware, they're all period-correct. I don't remember if I skipped any of them and just copied over some that were in the original mod, but you should be able to cross-reference them with what you have.

A few of them would be considered "doubles" now as they have since been painted by other people between 2017-18 when I first made them and today, but that's the downside of working on projects and not releasing them, I guess.

This is just a sample of what my folder looks like. If you're interested and want to include them in your project, let me know and I'll send them over.

NEChris: sorry I missed crediting you -- that's one of the reasons I didn't want to have this as a public release, because I'm still in the process of figuring out who did what and trying to remember which version(s) of the original mod I have. And your engine specs make sense, too; I seem to recall remarks on NoGrip about the original mod having unrealistic performance but I wasn't sure how far that carried and with this version it at least seems credibly realistic as far as race-tuned versions go. In the event that this mod does get a final release you'll be mentioned in the credits, of course.

Zexer: YES. I think many of the cars in this project will mostly be fine as-is when it comes to physics and models, and would largely be a compendium of historic skins, so any and all contributions in that department are totally welcome. Thanks!

I don't know a lot about these cars, but wasn't a Ford Zephyr engine used to get a bit more power?