Cars don't come out of the pits

Can anyone tell me why, in certain classes, for example with me it's for 1300 cc cars, many (about 15-20 depending on the track) never come out of the pits during practice or qualifying? The cars in question all seem to be either Alfa Juniors or Escort BDAs.

I figured it must be a setting in the mods somewhere.

Is it all of a particular model or just some?

I did a number of tests to try to find a common denominator. It's inconsistent, but most of the time it's the Alfa GTA junior, The 1300 BDA Escort, the Alfa GTV 2.0 and the Toyota 1600. Occassionally, because I tested on many tracks, one of the GTVs comes out but the BDAs never do.

I have looked at the .hdc and .cas files and can see nothing that would prevent them from coming out. I don't have this problem with any other classes, just the 2 litres and 1300s.

Hey Guys!

As a passionate offline Racer and a fan of the TC-65 Class in GTL it is and was a problem that bothers me as long as i play this game. I recherched on many platforms and must consider. There is no really smart solution for this problem. In the first time i bumped the cars with my car out of the Pits. I gained the Qualification time and select the view in the Monitor to one, where you can see the Brakelights. Then i change the Cars. If the Brakelights are out, the AI tries to come with this Car out of Pits. Now hurry up. Take your Car, drive behind the Car which tries to pit out and push it. Its a busy Job when half the Field tries to Pit out at the same time, and i think you must capitulate when you try it with a Ford Falcon on a track like the original Spa Track with its narrow Pit Garages.
The second Solution, a little bit smarter, is to manipulate the .eng-file with the Program "Toms Engine Shop v1.2". You must rise the Power for the lower rpm-values up to ca. 2000rpm. A good track to test the Pitout Quality of your Car is Nürburgring Müllenbach. If they comes out there, they comes out of Pit on nearly all tracks. In my BMW700RS Mod it was important for me, that the Cars go successful through this Test. The Engine Curves looks like this now:



I think i have also manipulated the values of "IdleRPMLogic" and "LaunchRPMLogic", but i did not exactly know, what i have done with this Values. I have Bookmarked a Site on NoGrip for later studies, but, well, its away.

If anybody has a better solution. Please Tell us. Highly requested!

Greetings
Muddie

Thanks Muddie

Surely you mean increase the torque, not the power? The red is the power and you have raised the torque below 2000 rpm. I tried it, right up to 80 on the BDH, and it made no difference. Any idea how "IdleRPMLogic" and "LaunchRPMLogic" were changed?

Muddie7272 wrote:

In the first time i bumped the cars with my car out of the Pits.

I still do this all the time

Have to check whether only addon cars are concerned.

I finally got most of the cars to come out, depending on the track, GPC Kyalami being the most difficult.

Muddie's solution helped in most cases but for example the BDA's had an absurd launch rev range of 8000-9000 rpm; at those revs you will get either too much wheelspin or you will cook the clutch. I reduced it to 5000-7000 and the BDA's go out all the time. The Mini 1275's are proving more difficult to fix, but I will work it out.

Thanks again Muddie!

Common problem with ISI engines, some cars are unable to get of the spot with their wheels fully turned in. Part physix problem, part AIW problem. I seem to recall the issue is less likely to appear when the garage spot is a little further away from the pit lane path

From the 'File Modding in GTL' pdf tutorial:

"LaunchRPMLogic= (x000.0, x000.0)
This very important. The first number should be the rpm where the torque really picks up (normally
at around 4000rpm) and the second number should be about 2000rpm higher. This is where all the
trouble with add-on cars failing to leave the garage comes in."

Yup. Makes perfect sense.

Perhaps making the turning radius of the car smaller in the HDC would mean they get out of narrow pits easier

Yes GeeDee In noticed, when looking at all the cars not going out from different views, that they all have the steering pointed to one side, locked at the furthest they can turn.

But when I looked at the settings, they were all set the same, as were all the cars that consistently go out.

SteerLockRange=(5.0, 0.5, 60)
SteerLockSetting=20

It's the worst at GPC Kyalami, I am now getting almost all to go out on most tracks, except a few stragglers, and never the same cars, which I am thinking means it depends on which pit or area they are parked in. I will fiddle with SLS and see...

Thanks!

Wel I tried everything; between the engine torque settings, steer lock and range, I am still no closer. This only happens with cars of less than 2 litre capacity so I do suspect the engine torque but it seems to make no consistent difference and on some tracks, like Brands Hatch for example, half the field does not exit the pits.

And I am not going to go around bumping cars out of the pits. There has to be an explanation: why do original cars with even smaller engine capacity get out of the pits okay?

just to find the reason, swap the engine file with one of a big volume car
if the problem will disappear, increase torque of the original one below IdleRev (or decrease backtorque)

Decrease pit limiter speed?

Sheesh so many good suggestions, thanks guys. After the reinstall today, and after I have added back all the mods one by one, I will try those out, because I think the problem will return. Will let you know how it went.

Have you tested if it just happens on certain tracks or all?

Yes, as I said, "I finally got most of the cars to come out, depending on the track, GPC Kyalami being the most difficult."

It's still the MIni 1275s and now the Lancia Stratos (?!) that consistently won't come out. I have not focused on this again though, too much else going on, but GPC Kyalami and Mullenbach are the worst

I guessed so, yeah. As mentioned before, its probably more of an AIW problem, I remember that problem when I was working for a modding team, but as I was never really into track building and AIW editing, so I can't really offer an solution. A pointer is, that the cars on the affected tracks fully turn their wheels when trying to leave the pits, which seems to cause to much friction from the tires for the engine to overcome. Kyalami has an extremely tight pit lane, IIRC?

0fflabeluse wrote:

A pointer is, that the cars on the affected tracks fully turn their wheels when trying to leave the pits, which seems to cause to much friction from the tires for the engine to overcome. Kyalami has an extremely tight pit lane, IIRC?

Yes that is exactly the issue, I see that when changing views on the cars that are stuck. Changing the engine torque at low revs helps in some cases but I still have these few cars that I cannot get to leave some pits no matter what I do.

AI does not use Launch RPM to get out of the pits. That's used only in race start.

AI leaves from the pits with minimum throttle. That's why you have to have a lot (some cases massive) amount of torque in idle rpm. In case of A110 1800 with big fat slicks, it was wayy over 400 Nm. (IIRC, that makes about 48 hp!) That's wayyy more than the engine makes in real rpm range, but having such spike in low rpm does not really matter as the max torque is not shown anywhere in game.

I have been updating my older physics with the fixes when I have made other updates, but still quite few older cars have non-updated torque curves. And now when the Nogrip is gone, distributing the updates has become problematic so finding them might be hard.

And yes, track effects this as well so my target has been in original tracks. (There's probably around 1000 or so add on tracks for GTL so there's no way to test the cars in all of them.)

I'm not real sure about GTL, as I usually work on tracks for GTR2, and there are a few differences.

I'm also not at home ATM and cannot check this out.

That said, in the .AIW file for GTR2, there is a line for the garage depth:

GarageDepth=(1.7000)

It is usually just above this line, near the top of the fine just before the waypoint definitions begin:

WorstAdjust=(0.8000)

I've been able to set the depth to as little as 0.1, and as large as 5.0 (did not need a larger depth yet so no need to have tested further). It sets the distance the AI travel forward from the garage before it turns onto the pit path, in meters, which sounds like it should fix the issue you are reporting. The default in GTR2 is 2.5.

Try adding that to the .AIW, delete the old .HAT file, and load the track to see if it makes a difference.

When I get home later, I'll try to verify if this will work in GTL or not, but it's worth a try...

This setting is also in rfactor, but is part of the .GDB file instead of the .AIW file.

Best wishes,

BillBro

try to decrease the negative torque value for the RPMs below IDLE RPM
it is the second value in the RPMTorque

as an example
this is the torque values of the Abarth from P&G3 mod

RPMTorque=( 0.0, -15.0, -30.0)
RPMTorque=( 250.0, -15.6, 89.5)
RPMTorque=( 500.0, -15.8, 96.4)
RPMTorque=( 750.0, -15.9, 100.0)
RPMTorque=( 1000.0, -16.1, 99.2)
RPMTorque=( 1250.0, -16.2, 96.2)
RPMTorque=( 1500.0, -16.5, 91.7)
RPMTorque=( 1750.0, -16.6, 87.3)
RPMTorque=( 2000.0, -16.7, 82.6)

it is lower(or higher infact) then -20

lusso wrote:

try to decrease the negative torque value for the RPMs below IDLE RPM
it is the second value in the RPMTorque

as an example
this is the torque values of the Abarth from P&G3 mod

RPMTorque=( 0.0, -15.0, -30.0)
RPMTorque=( 250.0, -15.6, 89.5)
RPMTorque=( 500.0, -15.8, 96.4)
RPMTorque=( 750.0, -15.9, 100.0)
RPMTorque=( 1000.0, -16.1, 99.2)
RPMTorque=( 1250.0, -16.2, 96.2)
RPMTorque=( 1500.0, -16.5, 91.7)
RPMTorque=( 1750.0, -16.6, 87.3)
RPMTorque=( 2000.0, -16.7, 82.6)

it is lower(or higher infact) then -20

Good morning all,
I agree with "Lusso", the second parameter of RPMTorque is certainly the cause of the problem of cars that do not come out of the stands (those driven by AI of course).
I just had the same problem on some cars that never came out of the stands in Test and Qualif. Therefore during the race they were always in the last lines.
My solution was to copy all the values of the 2nd parameter of the RPMTorque of the .eng file of a car that was coming out to copy them in the .eng file of the car that was a problem.
It worked at home, after, it's a simple statement ????
Sincerely
Christian